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Departures (16)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
UAL22 KLAX FMMI Enroute 2056
DAL7 KLAX RJTT Arriving
FIN2 KLAX EFHK Arriving
DAL7A KLAX RJTT Enroute 2155
UAL1215 KLAX PANC Enroute 0918
AAL240 KLAX KAUS Arriving
UAL1295 KLAX PHLI Enroute 0143
DAL958 KLAX KJFK Enroute 2043
AAL1268 KLAX KDFW Enroute 1925
QFA12 KLAX YSSY Enroute 0224
KAL012 KLAX RKSI Enroute 0342
GWF102 KLAX OMAA Enroute 0627
UAL2056 KLAX KSFO Enroute 0741
ACA551 KLAX CYVR Enroute 1850
HAL3 KLAX PHNL Enroute 1600
UAE216 KLAX OMDB Enroute 0626

Arrivals (17)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
THY9 LTFM KLAX Enroute 0501
DLH4C EDDF KLAX Enroute 0438
VIR23X EGLL KLAX Enroute 0539
UAL917 LIMC KLAX Enroute 0813
JBU1123 KJFK KLAX Enroute 0453
SWA1936 PHNL KLAX Enroute 0216
DLH17 EDDF KLAX Enroute 0925
DAL8 RJTT KLAX Enroute 1352
FJI810 NFFN KLAX Enroute 0136
WGN9614 VHHH KLAX Enroute 1007
DLH458 EDDM KLAX Enroute 1007
UAL2240 KDEN KLAX Enroute 0459
BAW4E EGLL KLAX Enroute 1305
AAL9601 RJTT KLAX Enroute 0448
UAL418 PHOG KLAX Enroute 0211
UAE1876 LEBL KLAX Enroute 1112
UAL199 ZSPD KLAX Departing

Los Angeles (SoCal) 33

Arrivals (3)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
UPS4 PHNL KONT Enroute 1600
CAL24 RCTP KONT Enroute 1052
DAL962 KPHX KONT Enroute 1600

Empire (SoCal) 3

Departures (2)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
DAL789 KSAN KMSP Arriving
BAW272 KSAN EGLL Enroute 2102

Arrivals (4)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
SWA736 KSFO KSAN Enroute 1600
DAL725 KATL KSAN Enroute 0358
UAL1483 KSFO KSAN Enroute 0405
HAL16 PHNL KSAN Enroute 0443

San Diego (SoCal) 6

Departures (2)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
WAT1038 KBUR KTRK Enroute 1037
UAL208 KBUR KSFO Enroute 1600

Arrivals (1)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
RPV1303 PHOG KBUR Enroute 0232

Burbank (SoCal) 3

Departures (1)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
AAL189 KPSP KSFO Enroute 1600

Palm Springs (SoCal) 1

Departures (4)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
HAL17 KLAS PHNL Enroute 0051
N1951S KHND KSEZ Enroute 0810
SWA1873 KLAS KDEN Enroute 1600
AAL1975 KLAS KDCA Enroute 1600

Arrivals (4)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
ASA612 KSEA KLAS Enroute 0542
PFL455 KSJC KLAS Enroute 1600
N525BG KSJC KLAS Enroute 1410
N5622J KLAS Enroute 1509

Las Vegas 8

Arrivals (1)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
PAY1192 KBIL KBFL Enroute 1600

Bakersfield 1

Departures (1)

Callsign Dep Arr Status ETA
COOK72 KIGM KDKK Enroute 1908

Other 1
  • Flights To/From ZLA: 56
  • Flights in ZLA Airspace: 17
  • Controller Schedule

    August 28th, 2025

    Los Angeles Center
    Aaryan Khan

    Session with PW

    1700 - 1830 PDT / 0000 - 0130 Zulu

    Mastering the KAYOH5 Arrival

    Purpose

    This article has been written due to popular demand. Its aim is to assist all ZLA controllers in mastering the KAYOH4 arrival for the ILS 20R at John Wayne Airport (KSNA). The article is aimed at all controller levels but is in no way meant to describe a one and only way to work this arrival. Its more a guideline.

    Introduction

    For the purpose of this article we are going to restrict ourselves to traffic arriving on the KAYOH5 for the ILS Approach to Rwy 20R at John Wayne Airport.

    The KAYOH5 is deemed to be one of the more difficult arrival procedures to control due to high terrain in the proximity of the airport as well as the Coast sector airspace layout North of the airport. Because of this, speed control is essential. I will coming back this again and again during the article.

    The weather:
    It is important to assess the weather situation of airports in your sector. It will affect how far away from the approach gate you will need to vector your arriving aircraft.

    Initial Contact

    Aircraft on the KAYOH5 arrival enter SoCal Approach airspace through the Empire Area. The Empire Area controllers are responsible for ensuring that KAYOH5 arrivals are handed to the Coast Area direct to KAYOH (either on the STAR or having been taken off the STAR and given direct KAYOH), crossing KAYOH at 8,000 and 190kts. It is imperative that arriving aircraft meet these restrictions on time. If you, the Coast controller, has reason to believe that the aircraft is going faster than 190kts you should ask the pilot what their Indicated Airspeed is and if it is greater than 190kts, advise them to start reducing to 190kts.

    On initial contact, issue arriving aircraft any relevant approach information as well as instructions for descent after KAYOH and a heading to depart KAYOH. There are several ways you can handle the descent and heading out of KAYOH.

    Option A

    You can instruct the aircraft to: "...cross KAYOH at 8,000, descend and maintain 5,000, depart KAYOH heading 280 vectors for the localizer".

    The actual MVA over KAYOH is 6,000'. However, because there is such as short distance between KAYOH and the 5,000' MVA, you can use anticipated separation to descend the aircraft all the way to 5,000'. Essentially, using anticipate separation in this case, means that you anticipate your arrival will not be able to descend 2,000' in 3 or 4 miles and therefore will not descend below 6,000' in the 6,000' MVA. Anticipate separation is use a lot in Local (Tower) controlling.

    Giving the descent clearance prior to KAYOH can be a good idea because it helps insure the pilot will start his descent even if you become distracted for a few seconds and forget about him. Having the aircraft descending at the right places is very important. Giving a late descent clearance is not really an option for this arrival and it becomes difficult to rectify a situation where this has happened. The aircraft is still in Empire Airspace until KAYOH, hence the reason you need to keep the aircraft at 8,000 until KAYOH.

    The 280 heading is as far north as you can turn the aircraft at KAYOH. If you turn the aircraft any more north than that, the will pass within 1.5 miles of the airspace boarder between Coast and Empire.

    Option B

    Initially, you can instruct the aircraft to: "...depart KAYOH heading 280, vectors for the localizer". Once the aircraft has reached KAYOH, you can give the descent instruction: "...descend and maintain 5,000'".

    This is how controllers work KAYOH arrivals in the real world. You must make sure you issue this instruction at KAYOH. Try very hard not miss that instruction. If you are under pressure and traffic levels are high and you think you may miss the descent call, use Option A instead.

    Option C

    This is your escape option. Due to the lack of airspace allocated to the Coast area north of the 20R localizer, there can only be a finite number of aircraft that you can safely fit between KAYOH and the ILS 20R final approach course. In saying this, you also need to take into account any aircraft joining the final approach West of the airport i.e. aircraft on the TANDY arrival. There may be times where you need more space between KAYOH and the airport. The best way to create more space (and time), is to vector the aircraft from KAYOH over the top of the final approach course, near LEMON, on a heading of 250 or 260 degrees. You can delay the descent clearance until KAYOH if you are going to use this method if you wish. You can give the following initial approach clearance:

    "...depart KAYOH heading 260, vectors across the localizer for sequence." Once the aircraft has reached KAYOH, assign 5,000. "...descend and maintain 5,000'".

    Jack be nimble, Jack be quick, will Jack make it to the Final Approach Fix?

    ?The key here is to make sure your arrivals are slowing and descending. Some pilots are not as quick as they should be when it comes to following instructions. If need be, advise the pilot that they need to start descending otherwise they will be too high and you will need to spin them. That usually does the trick. If you need to, instruct the pilot to give you his best rate of descent or tell him to increase his rate of descent.

    Option A and B

    Descend your aircraft via the MVAs. You need to slow the aircraft down again - I suggest 180kts for jets as a start, and you can slow props down further than that if you wish. If the pilot was slow to turn at KAYOH, you will need to turn him further North until the reach 1.5 miles from the edge of Coast airspace. The lowest altitude you should assign prior to turning the aircraft towards the localizer should be 4,000. You can use anticipated separation when descending aircraft with the MVA. Usually they will not be quick enough to be level at 5,000 in the 5,000 MVA. Because the edge of the 3,000/4,000 MVA is so close to the localizer, you should be turning the aircraft to join the localizer first before you look at giving them further descent. If you wait until the aircraft has reached the 3,000 MVA they will have no hope in making the turn onto final. Wait for as long as possible before turning the aircraft to join the localizer but make sure they don't overshoot. "...turn left heading 220, join the 20R localizer".

    Option C:

    Do not descend your aircraft below 4,000 until he is clear of the 20R localizer - you might have traffic on the 20R final approach which should be between 3,000' and 2,600'. Once they are clear of any traffic on the 20R localizer as well as traffic on the downwind, you can give a downwind heading of somewhere between 020 and 040 (depending on where they are). Now would be a good time to give a 180kt speed restriction and a descent to 3,000. Turn the aircraft to a base leg of 100 such that the aircraft will be able to join the 20R final approach at SNAKE. If the visibility is greater than 3SM and the ceiling is higher than 3,500' (3,000' MVA + 500') you can join the aircraft between SNAKE and LEMON and provided you keep them in the 2,600' MVA you can have them join right on LEMON at 2,600'.

    Approach Clearance

    Option A and B

    No surprises here. You have to be quick on this too. Once the aircraft has reached the edge of the 3,000' MVA you need to do the approach clearance. "...is five miles from LEMON, descend and maintain 3,000 until established localizer, cleared ILS 20R approach". The problem is, too many pilots wait until you read the whole clearance before they start doing doing anything. This means you loose a good 5-10 seconds of descent time. It might be a good idea to give the clearance whilst the pilot is just inside the 4,000' MVA. Be very careful about this. You don't want to have a deal because the pilot decided they were going to be on the ball right there and then. It doesn't take too long to figure out the reaction times of your pilots. Use this to help you determine how early (or late) to issue instructions. You should aim to have the pilot cross SNAKE at or below 3,300'. If this happens, you hit the nail so hard it went straight through the wall. It doesn't matter too much either, if the pilot crosses SNAKE at say 3,500' because the aircraft will be descending at a greater vertical speed than they would be if the were established on the glide scope which means they will get under it (just).

    Option C:

    Do not descend your aircraft below 4,000 until he is clear of the 19R localizer - you might have traffic on the 20R final approach which should be between 3,000' and 2,600'. Once they are clear of any traffic on the 20R localizer as well as traffic on the downwind, you can give a downwind heading of somewhere between 020 and 040 (depending on where they are). Now would be a good time to give a 180kt speed restriction and a descent to 3,000. Turn the aircraft to a base leg of 100 such that the aircraft will be able to join the 19R final approach at SNAKE. If the visibility is greater than 3SM and the ceiling is higher than 3,500' (3,000' MVA + 500') you can join the aircraft between SNAKE and LEMON and provided you keep them in the 2,600' MVA you can have them join right on LEMON at 2,600'.

    Conclusion

    Once the aircraft is established, all you have to is hand him to John Wayne Tower. This gets done at LEMON (the outer marker). You'll find that their isn't much time between your approach clearance an LEMON. Make sure you don't forget about your aircraft!

    Some Tips:

    1) Visual Approaches are your friend. Chain visual approaches are even better friends. Use these to help you ease your workload when the weather is nice. You can use chain visuals for KAYOH5 aircraft following KAYOH5 aircraft. This involves very little work on your part, which is great! If you only have one KAYOH5 arrival you can chain him to anything else on or turning final.

    2) Vectoring is a great way to create space and give yourself time. You have a radar. Use it!

    3) Don't be afraid to give pilots a nudge or two if they are not following your instructions in a timely fashion. It will save everybody a great deal of hassle later.

    4) Practice makes perfect. Log onto the Coast Area as much as you can.